As we await the white smoke from the chimney of Park Ridge-Niles School District 64 HQ signaling a new contract between the District and the teachers’ union known as the Park Ridge Education Association (“PREA”), we’ve been trying to keep our finger on the pulse of any public discussions about teachers’ pay and benefits since the contract negotiations are being conducted in secret.
So when we heard that the “Park Ridge Concerned Homeowners Group” Facebook page had a July 19 post about the same Park Ridge Herald-Advocate article we wrote about in our July 26 post, we had to check it out. And what we found was a plea of “Please don’t screw over our teachers. Please don’t screw over our teachers.”
We printed off the entire discussion as of July 30 at 5:20 p.m., all 18 pages of it, which you can read by clicking here. We encourage you to do so, if only to better understand the entitlement mentality that encourages soaring school costs and property taxes while ignoring stagnant-to-sliding performance.
The author of that FB post is someone who, judging from her many posts and comments, views moving to Park Ridge (in her case, from Chicago where her husband reportedly is a CPS teacher) and paying property taxes (reportedly among the lowest in Park Ridge) as entitling her and her family to every conceivable government service and facility…at no additional charge, of course.
Think of it as a kind of Willy Wonka golden ticket, or an all-inclusive Caribbean cruise (“Keep that cracked crab and champagne coming!”)
Despite authoring that FB post and contributing 30 or so comments to its string, however, she never articulates what exactly she means to not “screw over” the teachers. So we did some research and made a discovery that rivals the little boy’s observation about the emperor’s new clothes: were the D-64 Board to suddenly grow a collective spine and draw the line on sweetening the teachers’ employment terms by keeping in place the exact same terms of the current contract for another four years, teaching in D-64 schools would still be one of the best – if not THE best – jobs in all of Park Ridge.
How can that be? Let us count the ways.
1. This past school year D-64 teachers were required to work just 185 days out of a possible 260 work days (52 weeks x 5 days). That’s only 37 work weeks, leaving those teachers with 15 weeks of holidays and vacation. In almost every other occupation, that would be considered “part-time.”
2. Those work days can be cut back even further by paid sick and personal days: 10 sick and 3 personal per year for teachers with 1-2 years seniority; 12 sick and 3 personal during years 3-4; and 15 sick and 3 personal thereafter. So a fifth year teacher could get away with working only 167 days, giving them a whopping 18.5 weeks of holidays/vacation. Now that’s really “part time.”
3. According to the 2015-16 salary schedule for that 185 day/37-week maximum work year, salaries started at $48,582 for a rookie with only a BA degree. A 5th-year teacher with just a BA received $55,844. And a teacher with 20 years of service and just a BA got $81,526. For employees in the real world who are lucky enough to get 4 weeks off, those numbers would annualize out to $63,025, $72,443 and $105,759, respectively.
4. And how about those constitutionally-guaranteed TRS pensions? Start with a minimum of 75% of the average of the teacher’s four highest consecutive annual salaries during their last 10 years of teaching. And let’s not forget the current contract’s two annual 6%/year pre-retirement “salary spikes” that can artificially jack up those pensions even higher. So retiring even at that lowly $81,526 salary after 35 years – which can occur as early as age 57 – would yield a $61,000/year pension, which is almost $20,000/year more than the maximum Social Security benefit private sector employees get only if they hold off collecting until age 70.
5. Teachers also get better health care benefits than most of their private sector counterparts, even those who don’t have to rely on Obamacare.
Those are just a few of the simple metrics that neither the PREA nor the D-64 Board want the taxpayers to focus on, or even know about. Which is why you’ve never read them in D-64 meeting minutes or in quotes by School Board president Tony “Who’s the Boss?” Borrelli, or by any other Board members, or by the D-64 administrators, in our local newspapers.
Besides those metrics, however, are a number of intangibles that contribute substantially to making D-64 teaching jobs perhaps the best jobs in town, including:
- not having to scramble to arrange child care for all those days off school because teacher/parents have those same days off;
- not having to worry about being fired for incompetence or lack of results, because getting fired for those reasons (“cause” in private-sector parlance) is only slightly more likely than being struck by lightning…in the bathtub while eating jalapeno poppers and drinking Diet Dr. Pepper;
- the non-existent chance of the job being outsourced to Mexico or Malaysia, or even to Iowa or Indiana; and
- working in a clean, well-lighted place where the most serious job-related injury may well be a paper cut that even OSHA isn’t worried about.
Assuming one wants to teach – and even if one doesn’t – how much better a deal can one get?
Of course there are PREA teachers and their apologists who whine about how tough and stressful teaching K-8 Park Ridge kids can be. But with between 15 and 18.5 weeks of holiday/vacation time each year (not including weekends), there’s plenty of time to de-stress. Heck, our Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan get less time off than that, and they’re being bombed and shot at!
Not surprisingly, those same teachers and apologists turn apoplectic when confronted with these facts – especially when they are demanding (through their PREA negotiators) even more money, benefit enhancements, and better working conditions at the taxpayers’ expense.
Who is supposed to be looking out for the taxpayers? Why, the D-64 School Board, of course. Our elected representatives who are so proud of the job they’re doing that they do as much of it as possible – including negotiating with the PREA – in those secretive closed sessions sheltered from public scrutiny.
But if you want some insight into that Board’s taxpayer-last group-think, look no further than the colloquies of Board Member Tom Sotos in that “please don’t screw over our teachers” FB string.
Sotos starts out as Mr. Politician, trying to play both sides against the middle by claiming that “whatever happens…will be in the best interest of both the teachers…and the tax payers” while giving his assurance that the outcome will be “[a] contract that shows our appreciation to our teachers, yet respects the taxpayers who pay the bills.” He even goes all Donald J. Trump on us: “I assure you that in the end we will come out of this GREAT.”
We suspect he meant “YUGE.”
But then, under some pointed questioning, he shows his true (dark blue?) colors.
When it comes to the teachers’ part-time schedule, Sotos doesn’t want to hear about it: “I don’t think it is fair to bring in months worked as an argument in teachers [sic] salaries”; and “[t]hose teachers should never be questioned about hours worked or Summer’s offer [sic]. Ever.”
Why?
According to Sotos: “Most Teachers [sic] put in their time and do their job and in the end it comes out to the equivalent of a full day/full years [sic] worth of work.”
If you believe that, Tommy Boy has some swampland in Florida you might be interested in.
And when it comes to measuring performance and demanding accountability from teachers for the results of their work, Sotos is their lap dog: “[M]erit based pay is altogether different from what I implied in my statement”; and “It’s not fair to teachers to compare them to another profession.”
There you have it, folks, from a Board member who insists he’s looking out for the taxpayers but who sought and accepted the support of the PREA after one of its preferred candidates was thrown off the April 2015 ballot.
Part-time work with full-time pay, spring break and summers off, a gold-plated pension, and no risk or accountability whatsoever.
Sleep soundly tonight, D-64 taxpayers – Sotos is standing guard outside your henhouse.
So you can’t see your chickens getting plucked inside.
To read or post comments, click on title.
35 comments so far
My daughter graduated from a Big Ten school two years ago with a degree in Marketing. She is making only slightly more than a second year teacher, but she works 12 months a year with only two weeks vacation. It is a very competitive environment and she gets a job review every six months where her performance is evaluated critically. Compared to her job, teaching at D64 is a walk in the park.
Thank you for saying what too many people are scared to say and backing it up with facts.
PREA Nail, meet PW Hammer.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
EDITOR’S NOTE: You’re welcome.
Has anybody ever given a reason, publicly, for conducting these negotiations in secret?
EDITOR’S NOTE: We’ve not heard one.
Just the pension alone would make teaching in D-64 among the best jobs in town. Sotos sounds like a crackpot when he says that the number of months worked should not figure into the salary. Do his Tilted Kilt waitresses get FT pay for PT work? And if not, why not?
Enough with the teachers. Isn’t anyone looking at our seriously overpaid Superintendent and the ridiculous number of Assistant Superintendents? The people in the D64 offices have no direct interaction or impact on our children in the classroom. There is a lot of policy put in place counterproductive to meeting the teachers teach and meet the needs of the D64 students. There is a lot of money for salaries in the D64 office that could be better spent on students.
EDITOR’S NOTE: We agree that the D-64 administrators are overpaid and underperforming.
But we’re not going to fall for your “Look, there goes Elvis!” routine. The administration costs are the very tip of the iceberg – the teachers’ compensation is the rest of the iceberg.
How about when Alderman John Moran said Don’t worry about property taxes, “I look at it as tuition”…….THAT’S THE PROBLEM.
Also….
4th grade gym teachers making 100k + benefits to coach upper middle class kids square dancing and dodge ball?????
KPM loves free services but hates paying for them. She’s the welfare queen of Park Ridge or Chicago.
EDITOR’S NOTE: We don’t remember that comment from Ald. Moran: Is it in print anywhere?
In fairness to him, that MIGHT be the way HE views higher D-64 taxes because that’s how he can accept them. Unfortunately, that kind of view is unfair to all the people who don’t/can’t recover their D-64 taxes (oftentimes several-fold) through “free” tuition for multiple kids; and it is mathematically unsustainable.
We won’t concede she’s the “welfare queen,” but she’s certainly a finalist.
Disdain for teachers, how predictable. Look in the mirror — your mentality is responsible for the rise of Trump. You must be so proud.
EDITOR’S NOTE: No, the “disdain” is for those school board members – elected to be stewards of the taxpayers’ money and to ensure the best educational value for that money – kow-towing to the PREA in secret sessions while shirking any and all accountability for our overpriced and underperforming schools.
And if you want to blame somebody for Trump, blame the Republican Party and the 16 insipid puppies who lost to him.
Teachers work nine months and are paid for the same. This is a national standard even in states that hold classes year round. If you want them to work more, pay them more!
There is no private sector equivalent to the role of a public school teacher. Private and religious schools are not held to remotely the same standards as public schools.
Teachers have been paying almost 10% of every paycheck into their pensions while private sector employees pay roughly 7 1/2% into social security. As the state has neglected to fund teacher pensions as they were required to since the 50’s, so yes there is a problem now. However, the problem is not the teachers. Every citizen in the state shared equally in paying the debts of the states.
Fo those who think teaching in d64 such a great job send your resume to d64. in most cases you would have a real challenge meeting district requirements.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Is that you, Silly Drivel? Welcome back – we’ve missed your fact-less assertios and boneheaded arguments!
If you want to call it 9 months of pay for 9 months of work, then they’re overpaid for those 9 months – especially given the measurable performance and rankings.
Private and religious schools still have to be accredited, so where is your proof that “Private and religious schools are not held to remotely the same standards as public schools”?
Constitutionally-guaranteed defined benefit pensions rule 401(k)s, and totally destroy Social Security benefit.
And teaching in D-64 is such a great job they are swamped by applications for every vacancy and they have minimal turnover – two sure signs of easy work and/or overpayment. And unlike real-world private sector jobs, there’s no chance of the employer moving away and virtually no chance of being fired.
But it’s nice to see you haven’t lost your touch.
I hope you have a copyright on this “Silly” label you’ve applied to me and others, as I’m certain Mr. Trump will try to snag it as one of his own monikers soon.
The truth is your specious arguments and assertions are the reason collective bargaining is necessary. You routinely disrespect licensed professionals simply because you would like to elevate yourself above people paid with public funds. It must be disappointing to find that teachers are not so easily placed under thumb.
It’s not surprising that a smaller, more we’ll run investment vehicle outperforms a one size fits all system such as social security.
I’m pretty sure that there are qualified cadidates lined up for jobs at any of the big eight accounting firms. You would like people to think that employees who don’t move on to other firms are less capable, or unambitious. Perhaps they are simply happy in their work and satisfied with their benefits.
EDITOR’S NOTE: As well they should be, given that the only performance standard at D-64 seems to be simply showing up for a maximum of 185 work days a year…less the paid sick and personal days.
Let’s assume for the sake of this discussion that D64 teachers have been paid appropriately for the last four years. What have they (or the D64 administrators, for that matter) done well enough during the past four years as to have earned any raise?
Most people I know get raises and bonuses only if they have achieved some sort of productivity or quality goals that actually add value to the business or enterprise. From everything I can find and read, D64’s performance has not measurably improved over the past four years.
So what am I missing besides what the D64 negotiators and the PREA are plotting in those closed sessions?
EDITOR’S NOTE: Ask Mr. Transparency, “Boss” Borrelli. Assuming you can catch him before he runs into another closed session.
To 9:38 PM,
From your post:
“It’s not surprising that a smaller, more we’ll run investment vehicle outperforms a one size fits all system such as social security.”
I assume that you’re referring to the teacher’s pension plan in your comment about smaller and more we’ll (sic) run. If so, this displays your ignorance of how defined benefit pension plans work. The taxpayers are responsible for these pensions regardless of investment performance. The teachers have zero risk and the taxpayers are left on the hook for all of the unfunded promises. It’s got to end sometime, the model is just not manageable long term. Sooner or later the politicians will run out of other people’s money to spend.
EDITOR’S NOTE: But only after the politicians and their public employee union cronies have bled the state dry and filled up their own bank accounts.
You have never been a teacher. You have never dealt with kids. You have never dealt with parents.
The teachers at D64 don’t just work during school hours. Look at the parking lots, they are there by 7am and many don’t leave until 7pm. Plus they bring work home. You are so fool of your own insights that you don’t have any idea of what teachers do.
You don’t see the prep work that goes into getting ready for the semester. You don’t see the email responses that occur at 10pm, 11pm at night. You don’t see the work they have to do with putting up with problematic students.
You don’t see the polical battles that go on behind the scenes of what to teach, what books to read, what the cirriculm is.
You don’t see the importance of having an educated community, nor the benefit of having talented teachers. You want to treat teachers like a commodity,interchangable,no skills, anyone can do it.
If the taxpayers don’t want to have good schools, move. If the taxpayers don’t want to pay the tax, move. If the taxpayers don’t like the current Board, run for office.
Who has a more important job a teach or an attorney?
When you can look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself how you have influence individuals in a positive way on a grand scale, then you can quip about the salaries of teachers.
You may as well focus on topics that you have a broader understanding of, but education is not one of them. Why you want to imitiate Trump with your Yuge comment is also insulting. Trump likes uneducate people, you sound like you do too!!!
EDITOR’S NOTE: We stand by our post, which addresses many of your comments with documentation rather than idle anecdotes and fantasy.
More specifically, however, you don’t have to be a chef to know that your meal isn’t cooked right.
PREA teachers have asked to be treated “like a commodity” by demanding, and getting, contracts that don’t include merit pay or performance bonuses. THEY’RE the ones who prefer one-size-fits-all mediocrity.
Of course the taxpayers want to have good schools – they just don’t want to pay premium prices for mediocre schools when compared to communities like Glenview, Northbrook, Arlington Heights, etc.
As for who has “a more important job a teach [sic] or an attorney,” next time you get sued or get indicted, hire a D-64 “teach” to defend you. Just make sure the trial isn’t during the summer, or Christmas or Spring breaks.
Our “Yuge” comment was intended both to mock Trump and to insult Sotos’ grandiose claims. Glad to see you got at least half of it.
“Trump likes uneducate [sic] people, you sound like you do too!!!” Why else do we give you this forum and respond to your silly (small “s”) drivel (small “d”)?
Point taken about finding a good attorney. Most attorneys are crooks. 99% of attorneys give the other 1% a bad name. Most attorneys are worse than car repair people. Not sure why I need to insult car repair people, but they used to rip off people too.
All that being said, I would rather have a great teacher for my kids then a great attorney for me. A decent / good attorney can get the job done. A great teacher is inspirational, motivational, a conduit of knowledge for kids to aspire to do great things.
Attorneys are important too, don’t get me wrong; however, there are too many ambulance chasers.
Business, healthcare, public policy, etc., would be a lot less expensive if we didn’t have an overbearing burden with excessive lawsuits that 10-20% of the time are completely frivolous.
I don’t dislike uneducated people. I like everyone the same. Differences in education is not a reason to like or dislike a person. I have friends that are doctors, accountants, teachers, FBI agents, firemen, policemen, postal delivery carriers, artists, construction workers, social workers, handymen, and even lawyers.
I appreciate your forum. My drivel is too enlighten you that there is other view points to your perspective.
EDITOR’S NOTE: We know some “great” teachers in D-64, but they surely must not be a majority if the schools are performing so mediocrely vis-à-vis comparable districts. Or are you suggesting that the teachers are “great” but a majority of the kids they are teaching are dumber than stumps?.
Meanwhile, those “great” teachers are being paid the same as the mediocre and poor ones – which might float the S.S. Bernie Sanders or the Queen Elizabeth (Warren) but seems inherently unfair and wrong to us.
We’re very aware of other viewpoints – especially the self-serving, dishonest, greedy/freeloader, lacking in integrity, seeking to avoid accountability (like through anonymous comments) and just plain silly and/or foolish ones like those expressed by the likes of Kathy (Panattoni) Meade, Sarah Catherine, Glenna Dudley Pearson, Patricia Lynn, and our taxpayer-indifferent/PREA’s pocket-puppet School Board member, Tom Sotos, in that “Park Ridge Concerned Homeowners Group” Facebook page string we embedded just so that readers might also appreciate those “other viewpoints.”
To 9:30 AM,
I’d agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong! The state has NEVER fully funded the teacher pension plan. Get it? The star has never fully paid their portion of the pension, so what you are whining about is a debt that will never be paid. And yes, even though the state has not paid its share as required, the retirement program has utilized funds that have consistently been paid by teachers. These funds have been effectively invested and continue (so far) to keep the system running.
Your complaining about the debt owed to the pensions is like complaining about the war reparations that are owed to the US from WWII. Neither will ever be paid in your lifetime.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Haven’t those “funds that have consistently been paid by teachers” actually been paid the the taxpayers through pension pick-ups?
And 9:30’s principal point appears to be not the debt itself but that: “The teachers have zero risk and the taxpayers are left on the hook for all of the unfunded promises.” Or at least that’s the way we read it.
There are good and bad employees in every profession. The consistent complaints from the PW is that there is no accountability for d64 and other teachers. Sir, you must familiarize yourself with the exhaustive licensing processes for public school teachers, and recent changes in the state required evaluation process (including the Danielson model). Teachers are being rigorously evaluated, and in large numbers are being ranked among their peers. These rankings can serve to have a twenty year veteran released in exchange for a year two teacher who is in a higher grouping. This is what you want, and it is in progress.
However, there is no fair Value Added Model that can fairly assess of one teacher should be paid more and another less due to student achievement. There is no honest way to determine if one class had all the smart and invested students and if the other contained a bunch of Vinnie Bobarinos. The VAM has been attempted in California and a few other places… It was a flop, and proved only to create animosity between professionals trying to fight for the better students to be in their rolls.
EDITOR’S NOTE: The “Danielson Model” appears to be a model of shameless hyper self-promotion at best; and it may be an outright “emperor’s new clothes” fraud/scam at worst:
E.g., http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-singer/who-is-charlotte-danielso_b_3415034.html; http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art32197.asp
https://theassailedteacher.com/tag/charlotte-danielson/
Nevertheless, you seem to concede that No D-64 teachers get fired for incompetence/malpractice/negligent teaching. And they can’t be sued for it. And basically they can’t really be measured at all, hence no accountability.
So to recap: Eight-nine month work year. Very good pay and benefits. GREAT defined benefit pension that can be taken before age 60. No accountability for performance. Clean well-lighted workplace. And no real risk of any adverse circumstances.
And THAT’S why it’s the best job in Park Ridge!
7:25 p.m.
If there is “no fair Value Added Model that can fairly assess of one teacher should be paid more and another less due to student achievement,” by what model or criterion are teachers deserving of any raise?
EDITOR’S NOTE: Obviously we don’t know what kind of ridiculous demands the PREA has been making, or how tightly the D-64 negotiators are grabbing their ankles, or just how winking-and-nodding is the Kabuki that passes for “negotiations” by public officials who have no incentive to be “wise and frugal” with the taxpayers’ moey (as Jefferson suggested government should be).
But we’ll hazard a guess that there’s some COLA consideration becasue unionized public employees expect the taxpayers to protect them from the ravages of inflation, no matter how modest or out of control inflation might be.
Can anybody identify a full-time job that can be performed here in Park Ridge (other than teaching at D64) that requires only a BA degree, requires less than 9 months of work a year, pays $48K to start and $81K after 20 years, lets you retire before age 60 at 75% of your final salary, and does not have any performance standards that you can be fired for?
EDITOR’S NOTE: D-64 teachers DO have “performance standards” – but, as we understand them, they are “conduct”-related rather than competency-based.
5:40 am
I’ve spent the last 19 years looking for one, and the answer is a definite “no.”
To 4:52, and 5:20
Changes in the teaching profession occur every year. Continuing education is s requirement of licensing, district directives, plans, and requirements expand each year. To meet these demands teachers are constantly advancing themselves technologically and academically. Teachers do more every year in order to server the children they serve. For you were in contact with children in the community you would know this, and recognize that teacher benefits are not where you should try to dig for money to reduce your tax bill.
Yes, teachers, police, and typically fire employees can sometimes retire as early as age 55, provided they have worked 35 yrs. attempting to retire at 55 with less than 35 yrs of service would cost the significant reductions in their pension benefit. Again, since the state doesn’t really pay their share, it boggles the mind that you have the nerve to complain about it.
EDITOR’S NOTE Those other commenters can speak for themselves.
But every “profession” and most occupations, require (officially or tacitly) continuing education, training, seminars, etc. So teachers (and their apologists and sycophants) need to stop whining about what’s required of so many other occupations, often without compensation or comp. time.
And whether “the state doesn’t really pay their [sic] share” is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT when those pensions are CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED – meaning if the money isn’t in the account because the state didn’t make its contributions, the state has to borrow money, sell assets or raise taxes to cover the benefits.
To 7:03 PM,
Let’s bring some facts to the discussion, shall we:
1. See here:
http://trs.illinois.gov/pubs/afr/fy15.pdf
If you can read an income statement you’ll see that teacher contributions were only 15% of the retirement plan’s income for the fiscal year ended June 30, 2015. Contributions plus investment return totaled 43% of the income. So the majority of the income came from the state with a small part coming from employers. You can also see that out of 400K participants, only 160K are currently contributing. 115K are taking benefits and 126K are inactive. In addition, 58% of the liabilities are UNFUNDED, even with the relaxed projections that the retirement funds are allowed to use.
2. Here’s another reference:
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
As you can see, if a female teacher retires at age 57 she has a life expectancy of 27 more years.
3. Yet another reference:
https://ballotpedia.org/Illinois_state_budget_and_finances
Total tax revenue for the State of Illinois for fiscal 2014 (the latest year for which there is a budget) was $39B. Total spending was $69B. So if we raise our taxes by 77% we’ll break even in the state but we won’t be able to make any additional payments to the unfunded pensions. Keep in mind that there are more pension plans than just the teachers’ plan. When additional teachers retire, as they do every year, they draw their pensions for an expected 27 years and the unfunded liabilities get worse.
Combine all of these facts and one can see that there is a upcoming disaster for both teachers and taxpayers. If I were a teacher, I’d be scared that after I retire my pension would take a significant cut. The actuarial tables and pension projections don’t lie. Assuming that the answer is a tax increase, when taxes rise enough, those with the means to leave the state will go. After all, a lot of them already own homes in other states and can leave very easily. Then there will be no one with money to pay the bills. What are the retired teachers going to do then? Hope that the teacher contributions plus investment return will pay their pension (as you suggest)? Good luck with that.
In my opinion, the politicians and union leaders are lying to the union members when they say that there will be pension benefits in the distant future. The actuarial statistics don’t lie. This is a house of cards which is going to crash some day. Ignore it at your own risk.
So here’s a rhetorical question – why aren’t the union leaders demanding that the politicians (that they helped to elect) fully fund the pension plans?
Don’t flame me for pointing out the facts. If you don’t like this situation, call your elected representatives, including the school board members. They got us into this mess.
EDITOR’S NOTE: That’s an excellent analysis, and the conclusion/warning would be spot-on except for the constitutional guarantee of those pension benefits. It’s that guarantee which has emboldened the union leaders – with the support of the rank and file members – to demand raises and more raises instead of full funding of their pensions.
You could have let the other D—heads answer for themselves? The careers of which you speak (assuming you are talking about those that require college certification and licensing) such as attorneys and doctors handsomely compensate those workers with six figure paychecks. While highly educated, teachers do not rake in such pay for the bulk of their careers, and at best, might reach that summit within their last few years of work. And so, the more work required of the teacher, the more they will seek reasonable compensation.
The pension debt not being paid is completely relevant. Complaining about the pension bill owed, but not paid is comparable to the deadbeat who pays only $200 of their “agreed” mortgage debt each month, yet complains about their $,1,000 mortgage payment. It’s a great line start a conversation with in a windowless tavern with, but sober, thinking individuals won’t listen for long.
EDITOR’S NOTE: When it comes to teachers’ contracts pension funding is a red herring.
The fact it that teachers have not cared one fig about underfunded pensions because the benefits are constitutioally guaranteed. So the teachers know they’re getting that money no matter what, which is why they kept on demanding raises instead of pension funding.
4:52 here, “D-head.”
I’m still waiting for you or your fellow PREA groupies to tell us what criteria should be applied to justify any teacher raises in this new contract.
But Unlike teachers, attorneys and doctors:
• need three and four years, respectively, of education above a BA;
• they have continuing education requirements exceeding what is required of teachers;
• those who earn six figures work more than 8 months a year,
• they have to get and retain their clients to earn that money; and
• they also can be sued for errors in their performance.
So is the teachers’ current contract unfair? And, if so, how?
If you’re going to start tallying teachers’ working time, then it’s only fair to compensate them for the many hours per night they spend making individualized lesson plans for each student, reading student papers, grading student homework and doing their own necessary prep work. If a teacher only spends 2 hours a day during the school year at home preparing, grading, etc. (and many teachers spend considerably more time than that), that itself adds up to another 45 days. (180 days X 2 hrs per day = 360 hours; 360 hours divided by 8 hours per day = 45 days). So we have 180 days of school, another 10 days of in service time, plus 45 days worth of time at home. That’s 235 days right there. And if you think 2 hours per day is a lot of prep time, then you obviously don’t know any teachers well enough to see the time they have to put in out of what is supposed to be their own time.
The average private sector worker works in the range of 240-245 days per year (52 weeks X 5 days per week = 260 days, less 15 or 20 days for the combination of holidays and vacation time per year), So what we’re really looking at here is a difference of one or two weeks at most more than what the average teacher works.
And very few private sector workers are required to hold the equivalent of a Masters’ degree just to be eligible to keep their jobs.
EDITOR’S NOTE: No, Silly, the teachers ALREADY ARE being “compensate[d]…for the many hours” they allegedly work outside the classroom. That’s why they are SALARIED employees and not HOURLY employees, even though – unlike their private-sector peers – they get full-time pay for part-time hours.
And we can find nothing in the current teachers contract that says D-64 teachers are required to earn or have “the equivalent of a Masters’ [sic] degree just to be eligible to keep their jobs.”
But thanks for our daily dose of silly drivel, Silly Drivel.
You nailed it! This post is a homerun Dog! Unfortunately, we shouldn’t just blame the teachers or the administrators…the accountability for this mess should fall in large part on the shoulders of the D64 Board! As long as they keep rubber stamping budgets and contracts, and shy away from making the difficult decisions, we should expect to see nothing less than a Tax and Spend by D64. The taxpayers who voted to put these elected officials in office are ultimately the ones who need to look in the mirror.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Not just the “large part” but ALL of “the accountability for this mess should fall…on the shoulders of the D64 Board!”
Those Board members don’t seem to grasp that they are elected to represent the taxpayers who effectively own and operate D-64. And the reason they are allgedly “negotiating” with the PREA/teachers over a new contract is because the taxpayers’ interests are NOT the same as the teachers’ interests.
unfortunately, the current collection of Board members, like their predecessors, keep talking and acting as if they are allies of the PREA/teachers – which explains those secretive closed-session negotiations and Sotos’ self-congratulatory blathering on FB about how everything is going to turn out wonderfully for everybody.
Pubdog: have you calculated how many “days” firefighters “work” and compared their “time off” to that of teachers. Maybe firefighter is the “best job in park ridge” and given our sleepy community they deal with less stressful events than our teachers who have to deal with children influenced by the likes of you and your other anonymous bobble head (i.e.: pub dogs sheep) who comment on this blog and praise you with “hitting the nail on the head” etc etc
Silly indeed.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Comparing firefighters to teachers is beyond silly, Silly.
So we may need to upgrade you to “Ridiculous Drivel” for saying (even with a “maybe” thrown in) that firefighters “deal with less stressful events than our teachers” – because we’d be willing to bet that just one trip into a burning building, or one attempt by a paramedic to resuscitate a dying chld, produces far more adrenaline, cortisol and norepinephrine than 30 years of risking the occasional paper cut teaching in a D-64 school.
And pull the stats how many running into burning buildings have we had in our sleepy town last year? How many resuscitations etc? And how many days off in comparison.
It is just as ridiculous as your analysis – but you and your bobble heads are oblivious. Someone needs to civilize you.
Or do you only respond to mindless backslapping “way to go pubdog you see the best”. You and trump seem to have a lot in common in that regard.
EDITOR’S NOTE: The good thing about our sleepy little town is that running into burning buildings and resuscitating people is not a daily occurrence. But it is part of their job description, while the teachers’ job description doesn’t even include the threat of paper cuts.
But don’t worry: Tony “Who’s The Boss?” Borrelli and his merry band of Board members are licking the PREA’s boots so the teachers will get more money without having to do any more work and without having to objectively demonstrate any better outcomes for their students.
Meanwhile, Silly, if it weren’t for this blog that lets people like you post your drivel anonymously, you’d have no outlet whatsoever for your ridiculous ideas because you’d never post them under your own name.
You’re welcome.
Yes pubdog thank you for the outlet …lol… I wouldn’t need to post and educate/civilize you if you kept your idiotic analyses of “teachers only work 8 months per year” to yourself. By your own logic firefighters only work “part time” yet get paid “full time” salary and most hold side jobs. So apparently you are hell bent on beating up in teachers rather than all public employees that work less than the traditional work hours/days. Boy something must have happened between you and a teacher when you were a little tike that impacted you negatively for life?!
EDITOR’S NOTE: It’s just math, Silly, and here it is again – but get a calculator because you don’t have enough fingers and toes:
52 weeks x 5 days = 260 possible work days/year.
PREA/D-64 contract max. work days = 185.
185 days / 5 days = 37 work weeks = 15 vacation/holiday weeks.
185 days – 18 sick/personal days = 167 work days = 33.5 work weeks = 18.5 vacation/holiday weeks.
And two reasons firefighters get full-time pay is that: (a) while they may work only 10 days/month, they are on duty 24 hours on each of those days; and (b) according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/osh/os/ostb4347.pdf) firefighters have the third highest rate of total non-fatal occupational injury and illness (police have the sixth highest).
Teachers? They aren’t even listed, meaning they’re behind veterinarians, luggage sellers and flight attendants.
We think teachers are swell. But we also think that many/most of them aren’t nearly as good or successful at their jobs – based on objective student performance and rankings – as their pay scale would suggest. Which is why D-64 teachers would appear to have THE best job in Park Ridge when all factors are considered.
So let’s do the math for firefighter (who also gets vacation sick time and public pension) -you say 10 days a month and last time I checked there were 12 months in a year …bear with me while I count my fingers and toes follow along if you can: 10 days x 12 months =120 days a year minus vacation sick time etc. plus pension and plenty of standby (“on call time”) do engage in a side job or rescue kittens from trees bc park ridge has plenty of trees and not many 3 alarm fires. Last time I checked teachers have lesson plans to put together homework and tests to grade parent messages to return in all of their “standby time”. Looking more and more like firefighter by your metrics and math is THE best job in park ridge. Maybe you need to change the title of your post.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Even getting kitty out of the tree is more dangerous than anything a teacher does.
And since firefighters are on duty 24 hours per workday, that equals 240 hours/month – or 2,640 hours for an 11-month year – while giving teachers credit for as much as 10-hour days for their max. 185 days totals a mere 1,850 hours per year.
08.03.16 6:55 am here:
Still waiting for a reason for conducting these negotiations in secret.
And also wondering on what basis teachers deserve any additional money this coming year and 1-2-3 years thereafter?
EDITOR’S NOTE: Because John Heyde and Pat Fioretto, along with the rest of their board four years ago, agreed to a contractual secrecy provision. And we’re confident Tony “Who’s The Boss” Borrelli and the current Board will do the same this time around.
Because they’re still employed?
“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
? Mark Twain
I’ll let the two of you argue which one is the fool.
EDITOR’S NOTE: You get our vote, Serf.
So you are counting 24 hrs as “working” for firemen even taking into account the time they are sleeping during those 24 hrs because they are in call?! In that case teachers should get credit for every hour they are thinking of their lesson plan or a student or a school issue -since they aren’t allowed to sleep at work. And if your 10 hr day times 185 is correct -divide 1850 by a 8 hour work day the teachers are over 231 “days” of work per year.
See pubdog when you extrapolate out your “logic” it is beyond silly.
You are welcome- I enjoy civilizing you and getting you over your childhood deep seated hatred for the teachers that did you do wrong.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Get back to us when you’ve come up with the way of showing that teachers actually work more than 365 days a year – without involving the International Date Line.
We LOVE teachers – just not enough to pay Cadillac prices for a Buick.
To answer this question:
Has anybody ever given a reason, publicly, for conducting these negotiations in secret?
EDITOR’S NOTE: We’ve not heard one.
Section 2(c) of the Illinois open meetings acts lists several reasons when discussions may be had in closed session -one of them being collective bargaining negotiations. The thought behind it is you do not want the union listening to your bargaining strategy less they get an even greater upper hand at the bargaining table.
EDITOR’S NOTE: “May,” not must. And nothing about holding the bargaining sessions in open session requires either side to have “strategy” meetings in those open sessions. Besides, how much “strategy” is required for Borelli, Zimmerman et al. to grab their ankles and give away OPM?
Defending teachers’ 8 month work year by comparing it to firefighters’ schedules is absurd. Force the teachers to live at the schools for 24 hours, let them sleep several hours if they want to, and you would not be able to recruit any.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Don’t forget about them having to occasionally wake up at odd hours to teach something.
teachers to live at the schools for 24 hours, let them sleep several hours if they want to, and you would not be able to recruit any.
you could recruit plenty if you had them love at school for 24 hours AND made them teach only sporadically when the alarm bell went off and otherwise let them sit in front of the schools with door open petting a Dalmatian.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Yeah, but the Viagra and condom costs might be prohibitive.
As the spouse of a D64 teacher, and a school administrator myself, I think I have a bit of an interesting perspective on things, allow me to share a few thoughts.
There are a number of problems with this district, some having to do with the teachers, some having to do with the administrators, and some having to do with the parents.
1. Union protectionism. Every teacher at every school knows who the bad teachers are, and most hate that they can’t get rid of them. Unfortunately, teacher unions have ceased to be what a good union should be – an advocate for excellence in their professional field. Instead, teacher unions have become protectionist organizations designed to shield the worst performing teachers rather than doing what they should do, holding (and training) their members to an even higher standard than the state or district requires. A lousy plumber gets kicked out of the plumbers union because union plumbers want to maintain their reputation, it’s good for business. Unfortunately, this isn’t the case with the teachers union. Until educators rise up against their union and demand an end to protectionist practices for the weakest among them, nothing will change. Once the union learns to let go of the bottom 10% of performers, we’ll see our school’s performance rise significantly.
2. Outdated administrative culture. In D64, and indeed in most school districts around the country, a stale, old-fashioned culture of top-down management exists where the belief that the principal is the boss and the teachers are the subordinates still exists. This absolutely destroys teacher initiative, creativity, and ownership. Empowering teachers by making them the primary decision-makers, and placing the administrators back in their proper role as support personnel, will go a long way towards returning schools to a more student-centric environment. Principals and district level administrators need to be viewed as serving the teachers, not the other way around. Everything that happens in the district, everything that is done at an administrative level, should be viewed through the lens of student success – and student success is only achieved when you have excellent teachers receiving excellent support from their district team. And the success of that team begins and ends with a healthy, modern work culture.
3. Unrealistic parent expectations. The sensitive issue of special needs students being mainstreamed into regular classes must be addressed. This has become a huge problem in the district. Students with profound mental, physical, and behavioral disabilities being shoehorned into classes they really have no business attending benefits no one. Class sizes are already too large, then when you add several students in every class that are so disabled that they require a full time assistant (that the district must pay for) to deal with them, it becomes a huge drain on the valuable time and energy of our teachers and a massive distraction to rest of the students. Parents of special needs students need to respect the unique abilities of their children and place them in appropriate education environments, not pretend to be blind to their child’s limitations and insist that they attend regular classes with all the other kids. It becomes a distraction to the other children, it wastes teacher time and energy, and lowers the overall level of instruction in the classroom.
There are of course other issues, but if these three problems are dealt with, I think the district would be well on its way to healing itself. I don’t think taxpayers have a problem with paying taxes for great schools and great teachers, they only have a problem with not getting what they paid for. Fix these problems, and you’ll start getting the level of service you paid for.
EDITOR’S NOTE: While we may have some minor disagreements with your analysis, it sounds basically solid.
Too bad the D-64 Board (and its cluesless counterpart at D-207) would need both Cliff’s Notes and flash cards to understand any of this – and an actual spine to do anything about it.
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